Can I sell My WHOLE account??? - Guild Wars Forums

imnotyourmother · May 27, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I was just talking with friends that play WOW and other games online. They were talking about how they can spend hours making a toon and then selling the toon on e-bay. So my question is a touchy one.

If I buy prof. and start 1 toon and make it LDoA can I sell my Whole account?

(Why anyone would spend 5 month dling and then give it up is just stupid)

I said to my friends that GW was different than those cruddy games they play cause you need to do things for yourself not just oh here look at me I am ******* or whatever I paid 500 bucks and got this??? How stupid.

Long Live the GUILD!!!

Hobbs · May 27, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

In practice you most likely could but it would be against the EULA and the account would get banned were anet to hear the transaction to have taken place. But you'd have your money by then so it'd only be the other guy who gets screwed over...

Kattar · May 27, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

No.

*waits for the lock*

Antheus · May 27, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Of course you can. It's against EULA, and can get you banned and your account terminated, but people do it all the time nonetheless.

Good luck selling an account with single character and single title though.

Quote:

(Why anyone would spend 5 month dling and then give it up is just stupid)

If that's what you think, then leave games, and get a job. I mean that honestly - there's much more money to be made, it furthers your life and all that.

One title on one character isn't worth much. It's buyer's market of course, but I would say such account wouldn't sell for more than $10, which is less than the account costs in the first place. And people would buy it for storage, not for title.

If you have one of pvp titles (HA r14 or something like that), then you could get some $50-200.

The overall price of time spent in online games is measured in cents per hour. So a 500 hour character (maxed as much as it can be in that time - buyers will know) will go for $50-100.

Long story short - any minimum wage job pays 50-500 times as much as game time.

zwei2stein · May 27, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Assuming you are selling for real money, issue you should be concerned about is: who the hell is gonna buy account just for LDoA character they cant even rename/pick profession/pick look/assimilate to their normal account?

WoW char trading is at rage because you can add bought toon to your account and rename it to your liking.

DarkNecrid · May 27, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Can you?

Yes.

You can also run around outside naked, kill someone, rob people, pirate music/games, light someones house on fire....etc.

It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so...

Antheus · May 27, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

[i]

It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so...

Unless some new bills were passed recently, it's legal. EULAs are an agreement between provider and user, they are not enforced by legal system.

And in WoW it's common practice, one way or another. In WoW, this makes sense, since they earn money through subscriptions.

If someone buys an account, they will keep on playing. It also means they have lots of money to spend, so they'll buy expansions and all that.

Ctb · May 27, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so...

There's nothing illegal about selling the account, the game companies just don't want you to do it and assert contract claims to prevent it. The most they can do is sue you to try and prove that by selling the account you "damaged" them in some way (e.g. - by selling their intellectual property).

imnotyourmother · May 27, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

OK I get the drift.

I thought it was stupid argument cause I LOVE guild wars. As you can guess by my statements that it is a touchy question of which I have no intention.

So the second question is should Guild Wars 2 implement some of the same game dynamics as in wow?? toon trading gold hording?? stuff like that???

Would be weird.

kerpall · May 27, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

If someone buys an account, they will keep on playing. It also means they have lots of money to spend, so they'll buy expansions and all that.

It doesnt matter who has the account, you will still be paying just as much, as noted above. Guildwars on the other hand is bought and paid for goods. If you go and sell your account, that is one less person that could buy an account from Anet.

WoW makes money either way, GW does not.

mr_groovy · May 27, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Short awnser "no".

Long awnser "thy shall not sell an account".

Does it stop you from doing so? Nope.

Ctb · May 27, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Guildwars on the other hand is bought and paid for goods. If you go and sell your account, that is one less person that could buy an account from Anet.

Which brings up an interesting related point: if I paid for it, why can't I resell it? It's mine. I bought the disc, I paid for access, so why shouldn't I be able to transfer it, just like any other game?

I understand why they don't want that to happen since they have to continue paying upkeep on servers without having that additional sale to help, but I think it's awfully sketchy to be told "well, you bought it, but it's not really yours". It kind of falls under the category of "well, that should have been considered when you created your business plan".

sibelang · May 27, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

good luck!, успех!, !حظ سعيد, Viel Gl??ck!, semoga beruntung!
etc... xD

quickmonty · May 27, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Which brings up an interesting related point: if I paid for it, why can't I resell it? It's mine. I bought the disc, I paid for access, so why shouldn't I be able to transfer it, just like any other game?

Because they say you can't. It's in the EULA, the contract that you have to "sign" in order to play the game.

zwei2stein · May 27, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Because they say you can't. It's in the EULA, the contract that you have to "sign" in order to play the game.

Which isn't legally really contract.

However, you pay anet for CD key and box and manual, etc ... Not for account. Technically, you don't own it, your ownership of acc is only implied by you being associated with it and having full access to it.

Kattar · May 27, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

EULA is a legal contract. I'm sure their lawyers would love to talk to you about that one. Lol.

Kumu Honua · May 27, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Which brings up an interesting related point: if I paid for it, why can't I resell it? It's mine. I bought the disc, I paid for access, so why shouldn't I be able to transfer it, just like any other game?

It's the same reason you can't install one copy of Windows on two computers. You don't buy the software. You buy the license to use the software according to the EULA.

Licenses are non-transferable in the EULA. Thus, you "Can't" resell it because you agreed to the EULA that states that you cannot.

Witchblade · May 27, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

The items and characters are part of a service, THAT, you paid the right to use it.
But you dont OWN the items you are using, so you cant sell them

captain_carter · May 27, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

You do not own the account, it reamins the property of Anet. It wouldbe as illegal to sell the account as it would be to sell your neighbours car.

Ctb · May 27, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Because they say you can't. It's in the EULA, the contract that you have to "sign" in order to play the game.

Quote:

Thus, you "Can't" resell it because you agreed to the EULA that states that you cannot.

Highly questionable interpretation. Ownership rights trump EULAs, that was already hashed out in a case brought by Adobe against someone who purchased and then resold a number of Adobe products. It's a very small step to then take the argument to "I uninstalled the software, negating the license's full effect, and then transferred the entire thing to someone else".

Not cut and dry at all.

Quote:

EULA is a legal contract.

As stated in another thread, this is not a hard and fast fact. EULAs have been the subject of a number of competing interpretations in different districts and in different circumstances. Their enforceability is still highly suspect.

Quote:

But you dont OWN the items you are using, so you cant sell them

That's their argument, but it's never actually been tested as far as I know.

Quote:

It's the same reason you can't install one copy of Windows on two computers.

That's not the same thing. You can transfer the license, in full, from one computer to another, which is what selling your account would be, effectively. Microsoft has terms against that in their OEM agreements, but I don't know if they've ever tried to enforce them and had it tested in court (since it's mostly meant to prevent sleazy builders from using a single OEM disc on multiple machines).

Quote:

It wouldbe as illegal to sell the account as it would be to sell your neighbours car.

No, it wouldn't. Not even close. One is a felony: theft (and fraud from the other end of the transaction), the other is infringement on IP. One is criminal, the other is not. That's a terrible analogy.

Also, here's an EFF page on "Unconscionability" in click wrap licensing that's particularly interesting:

Unconscionability

Contract law and contracts are not nearly as hard and fast as most people assume them to be. Many, MANY contracts that we're subject to in our daily lives very likely on continue to exist because nobody has yet had a good enough reason, or the resources necessary, to challenge them.

May 27, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08	#1
imnotyourmother Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a house Guild: The Knitters Guild Profession: W/R	Can I sell My WHOLE account??? I was just talking with friends that play WOW and other games online. They were talking about how they can spend hours making a toon and then selling the toon on e-bay. So my question is a touchy one. If I buy prof. and start 1 toon and make it LDoA can I sell my Whole account? (Why anyone would spend 5 month dling and then give it up is just stupid) I said to my friends that GW was different than those cruddy games they play cause you need to do things for yourself not just oh here look at me I am ******* or whatever I paid 500 bucks and got this??? How stupid. Long Live the GUILD!!!

May 27, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16	#2
Hobbs Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Organised Spam [OS] Profession: W/	In practice you most likely could but it would be against the EULA and the account would get banned were anet to hear the transaction to have taken place. But you'd have your money by then so it'd only be the other guy who gets screwed over...

May 27, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18	#3
Kattar EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: SMS (lolgw2placeholder) Profession: Me/	No. waits for the lock

May 27, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20	#5
zwei2stein Grotto Attendant Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Europe Guild: The German Order [GER] Profession: N/	Assuming you are selling for real money, issue you should be concerned about is: who the hell is gonna buy account just for LDoA character they cant even rename/pick profession/pick look/assimilate to their normal account? WoW char trading is at rage because you can add bought toon to your account and rename it to your liking.

May 27, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21	#6
DarkNecrid Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jul 2006	Can you? Yes. You can also run around outside naked, kill someone, rob people, pirate music/games, light someones house on fire....etc. It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so...

May 27, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28	#9
imnotyourmother Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a house Guild: The Knitters Guild Profession: W/R	OK I get the drift. I thought it was stupid argument cause I LOVE guild wars. As you can guess by my statements that it is a touchy question of which I have no intention. So the second question is should Guild Wars 2 implement some of the same game dynamics as in wow?? toon trading gold hording?? stuff like that??? Would be weird.

May 27, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31	#11
mr_groovy Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Netherlands Guild: No Inherent Effect [NiE]	Short awnser "no". Long awnser "thy shall not sell an account". Does it stop you from doing so? Nope.

May 27, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42	#13
sibelang Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Nottofar Island Guild: Sekai o Oni Moriageru Tame no Suzumiya Haruhi no Dan [SOS-dan]	good luck!, успех!, !حظ سعيد, Viel Gl??ck!, semoga beruntung! etc... xD

May 27, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17	#16
Kattar EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: SMS (lolgw2placeholder) Profession: Me/	EULA is a legal contract. I'm sure their lawyers would love to talk to you about that one. Lol.

May 27, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37	#18
Witchblade Polar Bear Attendant Join Date: May 2005	The items and characters are part of a service, THAT, you paid the right to use it. But you dont OWN the items you are using, so you cant sell them

May 27, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40	#19
captain_carter Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Guild: The X Viles [TXV] Profession: R/	You do not own the account, it reamins the property of Anet. It wouldbe as illegal to sell the account as it would be to sell your neighbours car.